Today I decided to engage a non-vaccinator in a conversation, in a vain effort to have an informed discussion on the matter. This is the result.

My other hobbies? Banging my head into walls and peeing into the wind.

A Facebook friend posted a Penn & Teller video which encouraged people to vaccinate. One of her friends (whom I’ll refer to as “non-vaccinator) responded. I took the bait.

Non-vaccinator:  Don’t care what any one says the long term results of putting poisons in the body is death plain and simple!!! The onus is on the drug companies to prove there are no poisons in the vaccination!

Calvin Deobald: So, on the off chance that there MIGHT be something moderately harmful in a vaccine (an hypothesis for which there is no material evidence) you would be willing to return to a time where we subject children and adults to a myriad of diseases which we KNOW harm, mame, and kill? Bring back polio! Let’s have us some small pox! How about some birth defects, compliments of Rubella!

Non-vaccinator:  The issue here is free choice, if I chose to not put poisons in my body or my children’s bodies. because the drug companies can’t or won’t tell whats really in the vaccination and how it harms the body over time, Don’t force it on me or mine!!!

Calvin Deobald: I don’t really think there’s any secrecy about what’s in the vaccines. A bit of research will turn that up. And besides, pharmaceutical companies are not responsible for the content of the vaccines; Health Canada is. Companies only operate as licencees to manufacture the vaccine, so you need to re-direct your paranoia toward your government. http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/vs-sv/vs-faq04-eng.php

No one’s disputing your ability to make the choice, so there’s no attack on freedom here, just a disagreement about the wisdom of that choice.

Non-vaccinator:  My paranoia can be directed to all levels of government and the the drug companies for sure , as for no one is disputing my ability for free choice your wrong they are forcing people in some professions to take the flue shot! and yes a little research does show whats in them. like formaldehyde ,mercury, and aluminum, so if your good with that in your body go for it!!!

Calvin Deobald: If you’re subscribing to the misinformation and hyperbole espoused and propagated by shock/schlock jockey Don Imus and his wife Deirdre, neither of which has an ounce of medical training, then perhaps you may wish to read this: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/…/

It addresses the level of these and other chemicals in vaccines.

Non-vaccinator:  I am not subscribing to any misinformation, they knowingly admit to using those toxins in the shots, and tell you they won’t harm the body! I choose not to put them in my body, end of story!!!

Calvin Deobald:  Well, just as an example, if the levels of aluminum in a vaccine concern you, then you’ll also want to forego:

• drinks packaged in aluminum cans,
• foods – especially acidic ones – prepared in aluminum foil or aluminum cookware
• many cosmetics
• antiperspirants
• the foods in this list: http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/37/table/T3
• cocoa powder and confectiioner’s sugar http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/37/figure/F3
• much of the drinking water in the world.

In short, aluminum is the third most abundant mineral in the earth’s crust. If you assume that the foods you eat don’t contain vastly more of it than all the vaccines you could possibly subject yourself to in a lifetime, you are deluding yourself.

Non-vaccinator: So formaldehyde and mercury are abundant as well and they build up in the body, they are know toxins, but we should just for go that and put more in our bodies , free choice world so go for it!!

Calvin Deobald: OK, here goes. Let’s knock down these straw dogs one at a time. Formaldehyde IS a suspected carcinogen – when the body is exposed to industrial levels. But, it is also a naturally occurring substance. In general, we are exposed to about 100 ppb (parts per billion) outdoors and up to 2000 ppb indoors. The reason for indoor exposure being so much greater is that it is a common component or side effect in the manufacture of building and finishing products, such as carpet, plywood, …

BUT, even more significantly, formaldehyde is produced by the body itself as a normal byproduct of metabolism, especially where the digestion of fruits and vegetables is concerned. Normal levels would be about 2-3 micrograms per ml (g) of blood. The amount of formaldehyde in vaccines varies from absolutely none to 200 micrograms. Most have about 5 micrograms. Translation: even the vaccine with the highest levels of formaldehyde contains no more than 100 ml of your own blood. You have about 5 litres of blood in your body. Looking at it another way, you already have well over 50 times more formaldehyde flowing through your body than the “worst” vaccine will introduce. A third way of looking at it: in the worst case scenario, a vaccine might temporarily elevate your formaldehyde levels by 2%.

Non-vaccinator: Like I said we have all these carcinogens in our environment so we should just add more to our body knowing full well that it builds in the body and could one day kill you!!! what else is in the shot and what does the combination do for the body? flu shot is known to be of little effect ,and may weaken the immune system so you do get the flu! sorry bud to may red flags for me!!

Calvin Deobald: Well, formaldehyde does NOT accumulate in the body’s tissues in the way that mercury does. And AGAIN, I repeat. The body itself produces it AND uses it.

As for Thimerosal (the mercurial component that was once commonly used as a preservative in vaccines) it is now possible to avoid it entirely, if you choose: http://www.fda.gov/…/VaccineSafety/UCM096228…

Non-vaccinator:  So go a head put known cancer causing substances in your body because your body makes it any way whats a few more parts per million going to do Right, mix them with substances that do accumulate in the body and than wonder why we have a cancer epidemic in our world its a joke!!!

 Calvin Deobald: I see you will never be convinced by science or facts, so I return to my initial argument. Weigh the hypothetical threats you perceive against the very real and substantial threats posed by the diseases they prevent. Those diseases have crippled, disabled and killed millions of people throughout history. I invite you to produce a single statistic that vaccines have caused a tiny fraction of that damage to humanity.

Non-vaccinator: Those days are gone and not a threat as of to day so until and if they raise there ugly heads again, keep the poisons out of our bodies mercury accumulates in the brain and is said to be a cause of Alzheimers, we should be looking ahead not back for causes and cures!!

Calvin Deobald: IF they were gone it would be because of the very vaccines you decry, BUT recent outbreaks of measles, whooping cough and others, because people like you refuse to vaccinate their children, are stark evidence that they are NOT gone and can easily return.